Beat: Can't Beat Online Poker

[Sebastien]

I always liked poker -

When I was in college I remember I could do nothing but think and talk about poker (I still graduated). I would dream about making it to the top one day ...

Unfortunately I've never had the time nor the discipline to have good results. After graduating from probably the toughest college in the US, I took a job as a PM in a start-up. This never gave much of a window to play my favorite game.

When I play now, I'm usually exhausted from work. I do some stupid plays and tilt easily. I feel bad for not having enough time to post hands etc.. It just sucks. Bad beats on top of stress gets to you too.

On the other hand, poker affiliating is going great for me. I've come a *huge* way since I started; which was like 3-4 months ago. I still have a long ways to go but am already pulling in close to 2k uniques a month between all my sites (some advertised and some not)

When it comes to poker, I'm just afraid of quitting. Quitting is not a process that I'm used to. I've been playing poker for like 3 years. If I ditch something after putting so much effort into it, why wouldn't I quit poker affiliating? I'm not a quitter.

Affiliating has been way more fun than poker for me and less stressful. Recently I've been taking my new vaio Z laptop to internet cafes and starbucks after work; having a great time working on my sites.

So I guess I just have accept it and move on, quit playing poker online. My ego is telling me how much of a poker failure I am and giving me a really hard time though.


-- Sebastien

[themike537]

I was in a similar position, and you don't necessarily have to quit, just start viewing it as a recreational activity. I still play from time to time online or at casinos, but I've separated business (affiliating) from pleasure (poker), and it's helped to keep my real focus on business.

[Jeremy]

There are so many online poker players that love the game, yet are losing or break even players at best. This is fine if you play for pleasure or fun in your spare time.

Don't worry there are tons of affiliates in the same boat. Playing online poker can be one of the biggest distractions to affiliates just getting started.

Obviously you can have sick runs as a player, but in the flip side you can lose a lot of money as well. Overall I think investing your time in a business such as affiliate marketing is far better EV than continuing the pursuit of being a player if you're frustrated and losing.

[RakeReport]

Maybe it would help if we knew what you're playing when you are online? Tournaments, sng's, cash games, etc?

I know one of the biggest failings for a poker player is their desire to "be the best". If you play poker for profit, you can't let ego get in the way.

That's why I chose to focus on Omaha hi/lo as my main game. It's extremely easy (to me) and a good limit O8 player will generally earn 3-5 bb's/hr compared with a good limit hold em player who I believe can expect 1-2 bb's.

Variance isn't as rough because of the split-pot nature, and if you can find a table of mostly loose/passives, you get to play ABC poker without needing to get fancy or have many tough decisions.

Does it make me a poker god? Of course not, but who cares? I want to make as much profit as possible when I play. If I can make $80/hr playing 20/40, why would I jump up to 100/200 where I earn $50/hr?

Large-field tournaments can be frustrating. I don't know how many times I've slogged through fields of thousands to finish in the top 20 overall, and maybe win 15x my buyin while first place snags 500x their buyin. It gets old and frustrating pretty quick, thus the reason I focus more on cash games than on tournaments.

I enjoy being well-rounded though, not a specialist. So I picked up games like O8, Stud8, Razz, Badugi, 2-7 Triple Draw, etc. This way I can find mixed-rotation games and generally have an edge against most of the players. Since most people only know 1-2 games. If I know all 5 that's a pretty significant edge to maintain.

Of course, that's more relevant to live games than online. Online I will agree is much tougher than live. Players in live games are ridiculously soft if compared evenly limit for limit with online players.

[mypokercorner]

Originally Posted by RakeReport

I know one of the biggest failings for a poker player is their desire to "be the best".

That's true. If you want to build a bankroll, you can't "play to win". I know this sounds strange, but let me explain. I'll use sit and goes as an example.

Say you play 6 player sit and goes and you have the option of picking three tables:

table1: Winner takes all
table1: 1-2 place payout (both profits)
table1: 1-2-3 payout (1-2 profit, 3 covers 80% of yoru buyin).

Which table do you choose? If you go winner takes all, then that means you need to actually win 1 out of 6 times to break even. Actually, when you factor in the room fee, it's more like 1 in 5. Breaking even doesn't grow a bankroll. So the real question is this: Are you able to consitently win 1 out of 4 times? If you can't, then this table isn't for you.

Apply the same logic the the other tables.

For table 3, prize money is not as big for position 1 and 2, but it's a safer setting. You can almost be certain to win 3rd place consitently simply by waiting for the aggressive players to bust each other out. That means you can play really tight, not take huge risks, and try to double up when you have a great starting hand, or take advantage of your tight image and actually get away with stealing blinds towards the end, when they're worth it. So really in this situation, you can probably consitently finish 3rd place or better, and actually profit. If you adjust your play accordingly, you finish in 1st and 2nd more often than in 4th and 5th. Over a long period of time, you should see your bankroll increase slowly, but steadilly.

The other thing about these tournaments is sometimes you get in trouble and you have to decide if it's more intelligent to settle for 2nd or 3rd, by letting the blinds eat up the players who have less than you, as opposed to risking loosing to many chips and end up in non paying positions. Sometimes, it's not always about winning 1st place, but about surviving long enough to be in a paying position.

Hey look at that! I think I just wrote an article for my site

[RakeReport]

One other thing that you may want to factor in. Take the WSOP Main Event with 6,000+ entrants.

If you played that same tournament 17 years in a row and finished in 10th place out of 6,000+ entrants each year, you'd still make less money than the guy who took 1st place once (i.e. the year Jerry Yang won)

Think about how sickening that is. Obviously it would be much more skillful for you to take 10th for seventeen consecutive years. Yet one schmuck who takes 1st once and busts sixteen yearsin a row gets rewarded more than you do.

Such is the nature of tournament poker. No matter how good you are, you have to suffer through a ton of losses to hit the one big score to make it worth your while. You don't want to be the guy playing just to cash, you absolutely have to play for the top three spots.

That's why I focus more on cash games. And you'll find most long-term professional players do the same thing. I'm more Knish from Rounders than Mike. You won't get rich overnight, but you have consistant income and less variance, and the bills get paid.

It's also less of a roller coaster ride on your psyche than tournament poker. But if you're an action junkee, enjoy the tournaments. Just realize you will lose more events than you win, and have a lot of dry periods looking for the next bit hit.

[Sebastien]

RakeReport,

I play NL cash games exclusively. I think I will put poker on the backburner for now though...

I may still try to get some coaching and get better at heads up which is a pretty fascinating form of poker.

This will be for enjoyment only though. Right now, I don't rely on online cash games as a source of income in any way.

-- Sebastien

PS: let me know if you know of any good heads-up coaches up to 100NL.

[RakeReport]

Sebastian, NL cash isn't my area of expertise. But are you active in any online forums where they discuss strategy?

I know that's a nice free way to get advice (of course, not all advice is as good as the next)

Another alternative is to check out some of the poker coaching sites. Many of them offer free sample videos which may help you select the site that is right for your needs. There are lots of them out there with various monthly subscription fee's. But think of it as an investment.

[Sebastien]

Thanks.

Actually I have been a member of *all* the poker training sites since they started LOL.. Started with pokerxfactor when there was just sheets and johnny Bax, then cardrunners, then deucescracked, then leggopoker etc...

I think I'm a better player than the opponents at my stakes. However... I don't have enough balance and/or discipline to be successfull in this game => bummer, this makes me a donkey.

Circumstances are so that I usually play when I'm tired which leads to tilt, not caring about results "whatever syndrome", poor play...

So I think I'll just play less. And focus on affiliating, which is just as fun and way less stressful when I get back from work.

I guess the bad beats are the google slaps, but at least I don't hold a pair aces when they happen.

Thanks,

-- Sebastien

[mypokercorner]

I seem to recall seeing threads from both Ridge and Randy where they were offering poker training, if you're interested.