Paying for traffic?

xyphlo · #1 () 08-02-2007, 03:32 PM

I haven't really bought any traffic in PPC or large amounts of visitors in a while. I was wondering how many of you pay for traffic on a regular basis. And if so, what is a good monthly budget? Any recommendations? I've used sites like Adbrite and GoClick in the past for PPCs.

TheDonk · #2 () 08-02-2007, 06:08 PM

I do quite a bit of PPC and found a system that's been working well for me. I'm sorry, but I don't need/want any more competition at the place I use, but I will give you some of my strategy. First thing is, have lot's of landing pages. Use several on the best keywords. I use direct linking with my code, and multiple landing pages, and multiple sites all on the same keywords. Then, don't go too crazy bidding to the moon, you won't get a good ROI if you do (obviously). At the place I use, I've seen literally hundreds of sites come and go, and they all make the same mistakes. They come in, bid $1 - $2 on anything that has 'full tilt poker' or 'pokerstars' in it, then after 30-45 days they go broke and swear PPC is a losing battle. I prefer to saturate spots 3-10 or 5-10, at much lower bids. Another benefit to doing this is that many times you get a second shot at a customer. If they go to one of your sites or landing pages and don't care for what they see, they'll likely go back to the search engine and try another one down the list. If you're bidding $1.60 for the top bid, then $1.20 for the 3rd bid, and $.94 for the 5th bid, you can see that this will soak you dry real fast. However, if you have the 5th spot at $.15, the sixth at $.14, the 8th at $.08, the 9th at $.07, and the 10th at $.06, you're getting multiple shots at a guy for minimal costs. Another benefit to this system is that if you are creative enough to give viewers multiple titles and descriptions, you may pick him off easier that way and turn him into a conversion. There are keywords that I use in which I have #3,4,5,6,7,8,9 & 10 ranging from $.01 - $.20. I never duplicate landing pages or titles if I can help it. I wouldn't say I have a 'budget', but I tend to spend anywhere from $125 - $250 /mo depending on the time of year, competition, and my attitude. If my conversions have been poor, I kick it up a notch, if they're going well, I try to maintain my conversions while looking for areas to gap down in the bidding. That's another thing to make sure of - stay on top of your bids and gap down whenever you can. It might have taken $.43 for the 3rd spot yesterday, but it might only cost $.22 today. Okay here's another, stay away from anything that has 'free' in it. Do you really want to spend money to sign up every soccer mom who thinks it'll be fun to goof around playing poker while the kids are at swim class? If a keyword seems retarded, it probably is. Stick with keywords in which real money players would use. I know you know what I mean, there are certain words experienced, real money players use that newbies don't. Does an experienced, real money player type in 'holdem poker' when he's looking for a bonus code at Absolute Poker? No he doesn't, but every idiot out there is spending $2-$3 on that keyword trying to convert him anyway. That's a waste of money and you could've easily had 10-20 hits on better converting keywords for the same price as one hit on 'holdem poker' (that you won't convert anyway). Use common sense, and get inside your real money visitors heads.

I hope this helps some.

TheDonk

Jeremy · #3 () 08-02-2007, 06:13 PM

One of the best PPC strategy posts I've read here. Thanks for sharing Donk.

TheDonk · #4 () 08-02-2007, 06:27 PM

Let me add/clarify something I said. I didn't really explain why 'holdem poker' is less desirable than some others. First, an experienced player wouldn't use the term. So, you will most likely generate newbies only. Newbies tend to play for free, or not at all. If they do convert, it will likely be small stakes for quite a while and without many hours put in. Also, if you owned Pokerstars, a keyword like that might be worth going after because it generates more potential players in the long run, plus they can afford generally 3-4 times the cost per click than you can for equal ROI. When affiliates making 20-35% MGR try to compete with the poker rooms themselves, they will typically bid higher than it's worth. Another problem with 'holdem poker' is that there is nothing in that term that says "I want to play poker on the internet". They could be interested in finding the rules of the game so they don't look stupid at the Saturday night home game. They may want strategy articles, information on the poker industry, or any number of other things. I would much rather bid on 'holdem poker online' simply because you know that this player is interested in online poker versus many other possible topics. Another thing I wanted to clarify is that I'm not totally against keywords with 'free' in them, but if I'm going to be bidding on them, my bids will be in the pennies. Some of these players will convert at some point, and a few may turn out to be good players for you, but there are too many people who will never make a deposit to make them worth much.

TheDonk

Notspot · #5 () 08-02-2007, 07:06 PM

Great advice there Donk! I've been running some trials with PPC and am surprised at the results I'm getting so far. It's not the terms you originally think will be earners that are the most successful at conversions. It's almost a full time job managing the keywords but I imagine it becomes easier with time. We've still got some time left to run on our trial and I'm still not sure whether it's gonna be worth it yet. Although I think given time and experience it could become much more profitable.

How do you deal with all the fraud clicks? I've thought about reporting certain individuals who don't seem to realise we can see where the clicks are coming from - do you ever complain and get refunds or certain sites blocked, or do you just accept it as part of the package?

TheDonk · #6 () 08-02-2007, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notspot

How do you deal with all the fraud clicks? I've thought about reporting certain individuals who don't seem to realise we can see where the clicks are coming from - do you ever complain and get refunds or certain sites blocked, or do you just accept it as part of the package?

If you're paying $.15 / click, it doesn't bother you so much. When I used to spend more per click I reported the fraud and always got a refund. Nowadays, it's not worth my time to send an email to get $.37 back here and there so I forget about it and get on with more important things. Also, I've learned to spot the trends of click fraud. For example, I used to get tons of fraudulent clicks on 'texas hold'em' and 'poker online'. With my strategy changing and developing over time, I've stopped going after 'texas hold'em' anyway since it's not a well targeted keyword. But, back to the trends thought, I always pick up on it very fast now. It's obvious if you don't get any hits for a keyword in a month, then all of a sudden 3 in one day - that's pretty obvious. Once I notice this I drop all my bids to 1 penny to stay out of the way. Another clue is this, most people who are committing click fraud usually go after only the big, obvious keywords such as 'poker', 'online poker', 'texas hold'em', etc.. Those are expensive keywords that I don't go after anymore anyway, so I experience a lot less click fraud. It's become obvious to me that most of the people engaging in click fraud are not poker players, thus I rarely get any fraud for keywords like 'full tilt poker bonus code' or others like this. People who don't play online poker don't know what a bonus code is anyway, so it's pretty rare. What really irritates me though is irrelevant sites. I won't say the name, but it rhymes with Wacific Toker (and sister site - snowman, snowman, snowman.com) are HUGE abusers of keywords. I used to get them kicked off of all their irrelevant keywords, but a week later they're back and abusing even worse. The irritating thing is that they drive up the bids on everything, which costs us guys more $ - and they shouldn't even be on the damn keyword to begin with. The problem is that they spend too much $, so the place I go through won't kick 'em off the site.

Another tip that anyone with PPC experience will know, but affiliates newer to PPC might not think about: Remember to hit every version of a keyword. I often see people bidding on 'full tilt poker', but not on 'fulltiltpoker', or 'fulltilt poker'. 'ultimatebet poker.com' is always good for 10 -20 hit's /month for me...and I'm the only one bidding on it! I get those hits for a couple pennies apiece. The same for 'ultimate bet.com'. There are literally thousands of combinations for effective keywords. People always use 'pokerstars bonus code' or 'poker stars bonus code' and such, but there is little or no competition for 'bonus code pokerstars'. And just because you know it's called 'pokerstars.com', doesn't mean there aren't thousands of people typing 'pokerstar.com' into their search engines. The slightly strange keyword combinations are great for cheap, effective hits. Don't be too smart, think outside the box. Keep a pen and paper with you everywhere you go, you might have a rush of cheap, great keywords pop into your head that you don't want to forget. Also, most PPC search engines (or providers) offer a keyword generator. Use this to help get started, then spend a few hours looking over the list for the thousand or so others that have been missed.

TheDonk

Notspot · #7 () 08-02-2007, 08:26 PM

You should sell the advice in this thread - great stuff, more informative than any else I've read. Thanks.

(I'm serious, you should write an ebook or something)

psmoney · #8 () 08-02-2007, 10:47 PM

Wow, great thread donk. I have a few question since I am new to PPC, and have only toyed with it slightly with a few of my sites. What exactly do you mean by using multiple landing pages per key word, or should I ask how do you do this? Also, when you are talking about landing pages you are refering to the landing pages for your affiliate code of a certain poker room? For example, can I take my link from the PAW network and create a PPC ad with that link, or are you refering to using the link to my website where I have the PAW network ads on my website?

Please bare with me as I am new with PPC advertising. The only experience I have are my PPC ads I use for psmoney.com.

dbirider · #9 () 08-02-2007, 11:17 PM

Wow, great advaice in this thread. What are some good PPC sites that accept poker ads?

xyphlo · #10 () 08-03-2007, 12:48 AM

Thanks a lot Donk. That was very informative. I'll look around for some good PPC sites that accept gambling sites. There used to be some good ones back in the day, but I know there's less available to us now.