The Bonus Code Debate...

[PokerProp]

EDIT BY GRAHAM: This post started off as a discussion about what prop would do for his 1000th post, but spiraled into an interesting discussion. As per his request (and I am sure others will agree) I have changed the title and moved it to the General Affiliate Discussion section.

EDIT BY JIM: Thanks Graham, I removed my OP of it so we can stay on the new topic.

[Randy]

Tell your story. How'd you get started as an affiliate, what happened, how you grew your business, what advice would you give a new affiliate.

[Ridge]

Originally Posted by Randy

Tell your story. How'd you get started as an affiliate, what happened, how you grew your business, what advice would you give a new affiliate.

Great idea Randy. Having spoke with you a few times and having some dealings with you, I know you're a standup guy that knows your stuff.. It would be great to hear your journey through this business..

[mjmurphy53711]

I read all of your posts with great anticipation, so I'm sure it will be a great one, get writing!

[Graham]

Write a post about the positives and negatives of spending a lot of time on a poker affiliate forum.

[Kyle]

Tell us a secret

[PokerProp]

Originally Posted by Graham

Write a post about the positives and negatives of spending a lot of time on a poker affiliate forum.

I'm not sure I can make a long post out that, but good idea.
I have major short attention span but work a lot of hours per day, so for me it helps a lot that I work for 20 minutes, stop cruise the few forums I have bookmarked on the tool bar for 10-15 get up walk around for a few minutes to keep the blood flowing and then work 20 min more. My days pretty much a cycle or working 20 minutes, taking 20 minutes off repeated through out the day. (this for me is the positive).

The negative for me is probably different than for most. I find myself getting worked up more than I should over what other sites do. Personally I find it disturbing sites that SEO "Poker Site XYZ Bonus Code" because I feel these search terms add no value to the poker rooms and are only scalping other affiliates referred players. Oddly enough I don't at all feel the same way about SEOing "Poker Site XYZ Rakeback" as this is an open game the card rooms let us and actually in many cases encourage us to participate in (and for the record, I think its a stupid business model, I wish all rooms would do away with but in the meantime I'm going to keep offering it because its the best deal for the players) - and the players searching for this specifically are only signing up with a rakeback site. I guess the big difference is when players are SEOing to offer something that the player does not need them for (Most the bonuses are the same no matter whose code is used - and the interntion of most SEOing this is to capture players who see that section on the registration form: Honestly who searches for Full Tilt Referral Code, or PokerStars Marketing Code unless they found it on the form - its certainly not a natural thing to search). This is only one small example of the things I get worked up over from time to time (i'm getting better at just accepting them) but as an affiliate that first priority is the players and second is servicing the poker rooms best interest which in exchange I'm rewarded with fair compensation - things that deviated from that and are money first driven irritate me.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by PokerProp

The negative for me is probably different than for most. I find myself getting worked up more than I should over what other sites do. Personally I find it disturbing sites that SEO "Poker Site XYZ Bonus Code" because I feel these search terms add no value to the poker rooms and are only scalping other affiliates referred players. Oddly enough I don't at all feel the same way about SEOing "Poker Site XYZ Rakeback" as this is an open game the card rooms let us and actually in many cases encourage us to participate in (and for the record, I think its a stupid business model, I wish all rooms would do away with but in the meantime I'm going to keep offering it because its the best deal for the players) - and the players searching for this specifically are only signing up with a rakeback site. I guess the big difference is when players are SEOing to offer something that the player does not need them for (Most the bonuses are the same no matter whose code is used - and the interntion of most SEOing this is to capture players who see that section on the registration form: Honestly who searches for Full Tilt Referral Code, or PokerStars Marketing Code unless they found it on the form - its certainly not a natural thing to search). This is only one small example of the things I get worked up over from time to time (i'm getting better at just accepting them) but as an affiliate that first priority is the players and second is servicing the poker rooms best interest which in exchange I'm rewarded with fair compensation - things that deviated from that and are money first driven irritate me.

Absolutely true and in fact I would bet a lot of these affiliates are probably taking away players from legitimate affiliates on certain sites where bonus codes override affiliate cookies.

Honestly though I disagree with your thoughts about rakeback. I don't see much of a difference between rakeback type terms and bonus code terms. The players wouldn't even search for rakeback if they didn't already know about the room. Whether they go to one rakeback affiliate or another, there is not much of a difference. Sure you can say some will provide better service, special promotions etc., but if those sites are getting out ranked by other sites, then that isnt going to happen. Most of the time the player has already made their mind up that they want to play on these rooms and could care less who the affiliate is that is offering the rakeback, unless it is someone they have dealt with before.

It would be nice if sites implemented better measures to prevent these kind of things (ie. don't give a player an option to enter a bonus code if they go through one affiliate's link - this should be automatically filled), but I don't expect sites to make any major changes any time soon. For now, I guess the only thing that comes to mind is "if you can't beat em' might as well join them".

[PokerProp]

Let me back up why I feel rakeback is different. We’re talking about SEOing the terms, not about offering rakeback. I believe the majority of players searching “Poker Site XYZ Rakeback” are players who have rakeback at other accounts are familiar with the concept and therefore will look to see if its available at the room they’re planning to join now.

I believe the entire idea of some players have rakeback and some not, some affiliates offering it and some not is a stupid concept and business model all together. Absolute Poker had a strong no rakeback policy when I joined them, in fact the entire business model or rakeback did not exist openly at the time. When rakeback came out I was one of thier top player. I won or came in top 3 of almost every race and was paying close to $250K per year to rake to that site. What did they do, they made the stupid decision to not give me rakeback – today they probably would but back then the decided not to and lost me as a player. Next Full Tilt comes opens up. I get an offer to help get their site started, I fill my end and when the deal is over I’m left with an account that can’t get rakeback. It was stupid – later I was offered rakeback but personally as a player I was already offended and decided to give my business elsewhere.

There are lots of others in the same boat. I think its bad business the way things are set up now, so I’m very much against the rakeback model as it is, however my first concern is the players and I refuse to promote a room where other affiliates are offering players better than what I can, with only a few exceptions to that rule.

Anyways back on point the difference between the SEO strategy is that a player getting rakeback MUST use an affiliate. Therefore I don’t feel I am competing with the poker rooms by SEOing “PokerSite XYZ rakeback” I’m rather competing with a group of other affiliates which is something the model these rooms set up actually encourages. Why they decide to also have rakeback affiliates compete with non rakeback affiliates is beyond me? But they seem to like it that way.

Now on the other hand from an SEO standpoint optimizing PokerStars Marketing Code is intended only so that when a player looks at form and does not have a code they might find your code and enter it. That concept seems even sillier to me – I don’t understand with all the advanced technology poker rooms have why that field does not disappear at every single one of them if the player already has a cookie. In fact I think the concept is lame anywyas, because why do the card rooms want a player who saw their ad on TV or in a Magazine or one someone hat or T-Shirt to end up being tagged to an affiliate?

Anyways all this stuff baffles me, but I still feel strictly from an SEO standpoint that marketing something like (PokerSite XYZ Rakeback) is much different than “PokerSite (Some Odd Terms that shows up when registering)”. But I do understand how others might feel differently about it.

[offyourface]

I agree Poker Prop. The structure of the whole poker biz is a cluster fck. Its not like casinos where you can slap up your links and hit the ground running. With poker, I have to baby every page I put up on tons of different sites using a zillion different bonus codes, its a freaking nightmare. This is really one of the main reasons I have regressed with poker.

I am able to run exclusive bonus codes with various casinos I work with, and I am pretty sure all of them will give credit to the referring affiliate even if they enter my exclusive bonus code that is a better offer. To me this is fair, I don't want credit for another affiliates sale just because they searched for XYZ Casino Bonus Code and entered mine while using the other affiliates link. To me, the whole poker business just gave affiliates a license to steal other peoples referrals when they introduced bonus codes. They made it a cut throat business and one that is not my focus now. Casinos is where its at anyway, I consider my poker rev just a bonus considering the time I put in. But yea, its freaking retarded that I have to go through the bonus code bs with every single poker site just to give myself a sporting chance to get credit for my sale.

I hope something changes in this regard and evolves with the times, because really bonus codes are such a crock imo. I mean with the technology now adays, it wouldn't be all that hard to make it possible for the big dogs who can offer those better sign up bonuses, to just have all signups automatically get the exclusive bonus offer and do away with bonus codes. I can understand a reload bonus code field when players redeposit, but give me a break with the sign up bonus code. Why make players put in a bonus code when you offer one standard bonus offer and thats it. Absolutely retarded. I get worked up about it too Prop and its really frustrating the way they dictate how I run my business with these stupid bonus codes. Why can't I just put their links up and get credit when due, the end of it? I will continue to play the game, but poker is at the bottom of the totem pole for me.