Ouch

[PPP]

Originally Posted by Andy Poker.Vg

I guess i probably play them wrong but to be honest. I am primarily a cash game player.

I dont give a shit about surving, alot more about accumulating chips. Thats how i have final tabled sunday majors about 5times in the last 12 months.

You can play many different ways to win, i just believe my way is fundamentally correct.

A more obvious example. Suppose in some other hand, tournament or ring game doesn't matter, you hold a straight flush on the turn and will have the nuts on the river no matter what happens. Now suppose a complete goofus bets 50% of his chips on the turn, and you judge that he is stone cold bluffing. In this case moving all-in because you are "ahead" is ridiculous. He won't call, ever. You should call and try to get some sort of bet out of the guy on the river.

It's not about keeping the pot small. It's about making the most profitable play. In this case it would be to allow someone intent on suiciding off all his chips to be able to do it.

A similar concept is if you are last to bet on the river and you hold the nuts. Betting as much as you can will often not be the best play. You should make a bet that will either get called or checkraised, with the best play being to bet the amount that has the highest +EV.

[hazo]

Originally Posted by PPP

A more obvious example. Suppose in some other hand, tournament or ring game doesn't matter, you hold a straight flush on the turn and will have the nuts on the river no matter what happens. Now suppose a complete goofus bets 50% of his chips on the turn, and you judge that he is stone cold bluffing. In this case moving all-in because you are "ahead" is ridiculous. He won't call, ever. You should call and try to get some sort of bet out of the guy on the river.

It's not about keeping the pot small. It's about making the most profitable play. In this case it would be to allow someone intent on suiciding off all his chips to be able to do it.

This isn't my argument, but he already stated that this wasn't a way ahead, way behind hand. Making an argument with that example is taking it out of context.

Just thought I'd clear that up

[Andy Poker.Vg]

Originally Posted by PPP

A more obvious example. Suppose in some other hand, tournament or ring game doesn't matter, you hold a straight flush on the turn and will have the nuts on the river no matter what happens. Now suppose a complete goofus bets 50% of his chips on the turn, and you judge that he is stone cold bluffing. In this case moving all-in because you are "ahead" is ridiculous. He won't call, ever. You should call and try to get some sort of bet out of the guy on the river.

It's not about keeping the pot small. It's about making the most profitable play. In this case it would be to allow someone intent on suiciding off all his chips to be able to do it.

A similar concept is if you are last to bet on the river and you hold the nuts. Betting as much as you can will often not be the best play. You should make a bet that will either get called or checkraised, with the best play being to bet the amount that has the highest +EV.

Yes but thats not the same situation. The KJ should be betting because his opponents range is incredibly strong and is going to call a bet or even raise with a large proportion of his range.

If the KJ bets and gets raised the trip aces. Do u suggest "slowplaying" and just calling? I guarantee you that if i was playing this hand i would have got the majority of my stack in on the turn. All of the scenarios you list are correct, but this isnt that scenario. This clearly is different due to the board texture and your opponents perceived range.

The flop is and both check. The turn is and Moto bets 1,600. The button calls. The river is and Moto bets 2,500. The button raises to 8,500 and Moto reraises all in.

If i have KJ, i am betting the flop. If i get raised i am folding. If the guy with top set flat calls the flop then im shutting down. Lets imagine that i bet 1600 on flop. turn brings a ten. If trip aces leads, i am raising, if trip aces checks i am betting something close to 3/4 pot. If he smooth called the turn then im shoving the river, if he raised the turn im shoving the turn.

I believe this is pretty much the correct way to play it. Bet bet bet line is nearly always the best line unless the situation dictates otherwise.

[Andy Poker.Vg]

Also if i had aces i would have probably won the pot on the flop by betting. and im pretty sure you wouldn't advocate that...

[hazo]

Schwartz Finds Help

Board:

Both Adam Schwartz and his opponent checked the flop and Adam moved all-in on the turn holding pocket twos. His opponent called and showed K-J for top pair. The river was the , which was enough to double Adam up to 90,000.


Hahaha

[kaus]

Schwartz Finds Help

Board:

Both Adam Schwartz and his opponent checked the flop and Adam moved all-in on the turn holding pocket twos. His opponent called and showed K-J for top pair. The river was the , which was enough to double Adam up to 90,000.

lol go Adam

and yes Adam is a PAP member under name Rakefreeze he does a 2 +2 pokercast as well

[poker69]

Originally Posted by kaus

and yes Adam is a PAP member under name Rakefreeze he does a 2 +2 pokercast as well

Ahh cool now I have 2 people to somewhat follow and cheer for

[hazo]

Go for Shane Warne yewl! Plus Mark Vos is a very cool guy.

[offyourface]

I wonder what reaction the poker community would have if it was shown on tv, and Moto just called the reraise and the guy turned over a boat. I would venture to say he would be the laughing stock of the poker community just calling quad aces. But I guess the flip side of that is if he does turn over the royal and Moto just calls, it might just go down in history as the best call ever made.

But what happens when Moto bets the river with his quads and the other player comes over the top for all in. I am really curious what you guys are suggesting the move is for Moto in that scenario.

[Georgia Poker]

Who's Shane?