partypoker not paying this affiliate

[pittsburg123]

Hello,

I signed up as an affilliate with partypoker.com in September of 2004. I signed up 29 new real money players at their site in the month of October under the payment option of $65.00 for the 1st 9 players (9 x $65 = $585) and then $75.00 for every player signed up above 9. (20 x $75 = $1500) total payment from just the sign-ups ( $2085 ) They also sent me a offer for another $15 per sign-up (29 x $15 = $435) and a $250 bonus if I get more than 10 sign-ups in the month of October for a total of ($2770 = 585+1500+435+250) To this day Partypoker has refused me payment for these 29 new real money accounts. Whenever I have inquired about my payment they state that the new player accounts have not generated enough rake and until they do my payment is on hold. Nowhere in any of the affilliate wording or terms of agreement does it state that new players must generate a certain amount of rake in order for the affilliate to be paid. Nowhere in the bonus offer (included below) does it s!
ay this. I just want to be paid for the 29 people that I have signed up. The player that I signed up are all on-line real money player and started with at least $50 in their partypoker account. I have contacted them numerous times about this issue with always the same result. (I have included some of my email and their replies below also)

Dear Randy Breier

We welcome you to the PartyPoker.com family and we hope this relationship
builds towards a mutually beneficial and rewarding relationship.

EARN $15 CPA EXTRA + $250 FLAT EXTRA IN OCTOBER 2004

You could earn $15 CPA Extra over and above your regular affiliate
commissions by participating in this special promotion.
You could also earn a SPECIAL BONUS of $250 Flat Extra if you register at
least 10 Real Players in October '04.
If you generate 10 Real players in October '04, you could actually earn $400
Extra!
Illustration: 10 Real Players x $15 CPA Extra = $150 + $250 (Special Bonus)
= $400 Extra over and above your October '04 commissions!

TERMS AND CONDITIONS:
* Duration for the Promotion is from 1st Oct '04 to 31st Oct'04.
* The offer is not for every independent tracker / beneficiary. If
you have multiple trackers / beneficiaries, sum total of signups generated
in these multiple trackers/ beneficiaries would be taken into consideration
while computing your earnings.
* The $15 CPA extra mentioned above is applicable for Real Players
generated in all trackers (CPA and Revenue share).
* The $250 (Special Bonus) mentioned above is a flat amounts and not
per player. You have to achieve minimum of 10 Real players in October '04 to
qualify for this special bonus.
* PartyPoker.com reserves the right to inspect the players acquired
during this period for reasonable quality and to hold payment until the
authenticity of these players is verified.
* The offer is over and above the regular commissions you would get
for October 2004.
* PartyPoker.com reserves the right to modify the terms and
conditions of this promotion.
* Decision of PartyPoker.com will be final and binding.
We wish you luck for achieving the EXTRA $$$!!!

Do get back to us in case you need any clarifications or support. It will be
our pleasure to serve you.
Regards,

William
Affiliates Team- PartyPoker.com
William@igmmarketing.com

Just some of my emails and their replies

From :
Sent : Wednesday, February 23, 2005 9:43 AM
To : pittsburg123@hotmail.com
Subject : RE: FW:RE: RE: Welcome to the PartyPoker.com Affiliate Marketing Program [#1903373] [#2461504]

Dear Randy,

With regard's to your e-mail, we have verified all your player account sign-ups you had in the month of October, and see that none of your players has generated enough rake for your payments to be released, and all the players have stopped playing without any further activity on the Partypoker tables.
and this is the reason why your payments are still on HOLD for the month of October, We are into business and expect a long time relationship with you, we understand your concern but you should know that we pay your revenues from the profit that we get from the players.
Your payments will be on hold untill we see any player activity from your
players on the partypoker tables, as the rake amount of your player increases
your payments will be made.

If you have further questions and/or concerns, we will be glad to assist you further.
Sincerely,

Affiliate Accounts Team

--Original Message--
From: pittsburg123@hotmail.com
Date: 2005-02-22 12:31
To: affiliates@partypoker.com
Subject: RE: FW:RE: RE: Welcome to the PartyPoker.com Affiliate Marketing
Program
[#1903373][#2461504]

Please make my October payment. This is getting rediculous. I have done all
that has been required of me in getting you the 29 people signed up. It is
now your turn to make good on what you say.

Thank you,

Randy Breier

From: affiliates@partypoker.com
To: pittsburg123@hotmail.com
Subject: FW:RE: RE: Welcome to the PartyPoker.com Affiliate Marketing
Program [#1903373]
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 09:59:34 -0500 (EST)

HI,

We see that the payment has not been made to you as you have no accrued
amount, kindly check your stats for Nov.
If you have further questions and/or concerns, we will be glad to assist you further.
Sincerely,

Affiliate Accounts Team

--Original Message--
From: pittsburg123@hotmail.com
Date: 2004-12-04 10:06
To: affiliates@partypoker.com
Subject: RE: Welcome to the PartyPoker.com Affiliate Marketing
Program [#1903373]

I have tried several times in the past week to contact this person via email
and I have not had a response from him yet. Maybe you can help and have him
contact me.
Thank you
Randy Breier
pittsburg321

From: affiliates@partypoker.com
To: pittsburg123@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: Welcome to the PartyPoker.com Affiliate Marketing Program
[#1903373]
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 19:49:37 -0500 (EST)

Hi,

Please get in touch with your Affiliate Accounts manager for this as he
would be the only person who would be able to assist you.

You can contact him at rohitp@iglobalmedia.com

If you have further questions and/or concerns, we will be glad to assist you further.
Sincerely,

Affiliate Accounts Team

--Original Message--
From: pittsburg123@hotmail.com
Date: 2004-11-21 12:46
To: affiliates@partypoker.com
Subject: RE: Welcome to the PartyPoker.com Affiliate Marketing
Program
[#1903373]

Hello,

Can you please tell me the status of my account payment.

From: affiliates@partypoker.com
To: pittsburg123@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: Welcome to the PartyPoker.com Affiliate Marketing Program
[#1903373]
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 02:55:29 -0500 (EST)

Hi,
We do see that you have got us 29 real money players. This is a very good
figure to start with.
The payment to you on them is getting delayed as the total revenue generated
by them in October is $268.19 and the total due to you is $2,264.57. Please
note that the payment should be justified, your payment would be made once
the revenue increases.
If you have further questions and/or concerns, we will be glad to assist you
further.
Sincerely,
Affiliate Accounts Team

--Original Message--
From: pittsburg123@hotmail.com
Date: 2004-11-09 02:14
To: affiliates@partypoker.com
Subject: RE: Welcome to the PartyPoker.com Affiliate Marketing
Program
[#1903373]

I would like to find out the status on my account please. I have brought to
you 29 new accounts this past month. Most of these players are real money
players on various other online poker sites that really wanted to try out
partypoker. Please let me know ASAP.

From: affiliates@partypoker.com
To: pittsburg123@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: Welcome to the PartyPoker.com Affiliate Marketing Program
[#1903373]
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:26:15 -0500 (EST)

Dear Randy,
In response to your e-mail, we would like to inform you that your affiliate
revenue is on hold for a temporary basis.
This is due to the fact that the players referred by you have not played
much at Party Poker, we need to make sure that the players have signed up
with an intention to play.
We do understand you concern, as we expect a long term relationship from our
partner's but please cooperate with us and we need to check the accounts to
ensure there is no system abuse, your payments are on hold only for
temporary basis, and so as soon as the rake generated by your players
increase your payments will be made.
If you have further questions and/or concerns, we will be glad to assist you
further.
Sincerely,
Affiliate Accounts Team

--Original Message--
From: pittsburg123@hotmail.com
Date: 2004-11-05 15:54
To: affiliates@partypoker.com
Subject: RE: Welcome to the PartyPoker.com Affiliate Marketing
Program[#1903373]

When will the pay-outs be distributed for October? You said they would be
paid out by or on the 5th. Please let me know ASAP.

Thank you
Randy Breier




If there is anyway at all that you can help me recieve my payment I would be most grateful. As I have told partypoker I have done my part in getting real money player accounts to their tables. It is there job to keep them playing. I am just looking to collect what is owed to me ($2770)

Thank you very much
Randy Breier
pittsburg123

[richardb]

I was going to recommend that you contact Satya/iGlobalMedia who normally posts on casinoaffiliateprograms.com, but I noticed you have already done that. You are not the first person to encounter this type of problem. I am not sure how others have resolved this issue, but I am thinking they just converted their players from CPA to Percentage of MGR. I guess PartyPoker should add a clause to their affiliate agreement saying what the minimum requirements are to collect on a player who signs up via the CPA plan. Let us know what Satya says.

This happens almost all the time when new affiliates sign up for the CPA plan and bring in a bunch of new players. I can see both sides of it, only becuase Party is just protecting their interests as well. Although this does suck when your an honest affiliate.

If Party didn't do this you could essentially give 100 people $50 to sign up at party, play one or two hands, then let the money sit there for a month.........and cash out all the accounts. The affiliate would then collect $6500+ CPA.

Obviously this is pretty extreme, but if it IS possible some jackass would and probably has attempted to do it.

[FeeRan]

Randy - The same thing happened to me in one of my first months.. I think some players may have been creating fraudulant accounts, because my payout was around $3000 and my MGR was like $900. And with my website - ThePokerHookup.com, I have to be extremely careful to prevent fraudulant users from signing up, because I offer $75 for free to players. We have several measures in place to prevent fraud, because we know that Party Poker will NOT pay us if the MGR they generate is too low. That's why I think websites like PPFREE50.com will ultimately fail - they just don't warn players enough about creating multiple accounts.

From looking at your stats, I can say with absolute certainty, that some fraud was occuring... either on your part, or the part of a user signing up with you. If the players just averaged $9.25 MGR, then the affiliates department was right when saying, "all the players have stopped playing without any further activity on the Partypoker tables." That means most of the players played enough to get their bonus, and quit. It's extremely unlikely that 29 legitimate players bought in 50 bucks, then just quit after they lost.

How were you promoting Party Poker, online or offline? Did you offer a special promotion? Give us a website or something. This will help me make some suggestions for you in the future.

I have dealt with your affiliate manager before, and sometimes it gets ridiculous because he doesn't answer any e-mails. When he was witholding my money, I had to set up a different e-mail address to get his attention. Party Poker should not be ignoring it's affiliates, and it should be held responsible for this. They should always answer serious affiliate inquiries - especially when it is regarding thousands of dollars. Ignoring the problem isn't going to make it go away.

That being said, once you get ahold of your affiliate manager, he will offer you an amicable solution if you are reasonable with him. Don't accuse him of anything or get extremely angry, just politely ask him for a compromise. The best compromise you are going to get is this: Once the Monthly Gross Revenue of all your players equals Party Poker's Payout, they will release your money. I think that is extremely reasonable of Party Poker to do(and they will do it), because once the total MGR equals the money they pay you, they are making $0 profit. There is no way the Affiliates Department will pay you if they are making negative profit. They may also agree to make partial payments - once your players have reached $1000 MGR they may release $1000 to you.

If none of your players are playing right now, it will be very hard to get to the total MGR that you need to get them to give you your money. Here is what I reccomend doing: Set your friends up with some MGR accounts. This means you will make 20% of their rake, and the rest of the Monthly Gross Revenue will go to Party Poker's profits. If you have several friends you know you can trust to play a lot, this will help accelerate your earnings for Party Poker. Also, start promoting your MGR trackers everywhere. Start a website, buy Jeremy's e-book, and start raking in that money from MGR. Once you get your Monthly Gross Revenue to your bonus amount, you will be sitting on your $2770, as well as a healthy base of players to keep getting you part of Party Poker's rake.

Basically, you are going to have to be patient. Complaining with Party Poker is going to get your nowhere. Being productive, and getting your earnings up, is going to. Do NOT promote anymore CPA trackers until you get your payment. That will just make matters worse. It may take a few months, but if you take the right course of action, you will get your money.

Hope this post was helpful.
(Remember to tell me how you were promoting the website, this will help me give you suggestions for your future promotions)

[pittsburg123]

Thank you all for responding,

I have not heard from satya yet but when I do I will share with all.

Thanks again
Randy

[FeeRan]

Hey Randy - How were you promoting the website that month?? Online/Offline or what?

[FeeRan]

Nevermind, you answered in another thread that it was on Pokerroom.com ... I find it very hard to believe that you made almost $3000 off telling players on Pokerroom to sign up on Party Poker. Most of these players would see it as spam, and they already know they can get bonuses to party poker... and they would most certainly be active, if they were real money on PokerRoom.

There was definetly some fraud going on here. Without a doubt. In most cases, it would be on the affiliates part. I'm not sure what it was in your case. I apologize if i'm sounding accusatory, but i'm just thinking along the same lines as Party Poker... something is wrong with that picture.

If fraud is going on, they have no obligation to pay you. Even if it 's the players fault.

They will pay you, regardless, if you get your MGR up. So just work on that for now.

[pittsburg123]

Not only did I get my people from there I also signed up over 700 people with real money accounts for another affiliate before I decided to try it on my own. He was funding their accounts with $50 and paying me a commision to do get them. I tried the same offer on my own and my players have quit playing.

[richardb]

Originally posted by pittsburg123@Mar 5 2005, 02:24 PM
Not only did I get my people from there I also signed up over 700 people with real money accounts for another affiliate before I decided to try it on my own. He was funding their accounts with $50 and paying me a commision to do get them. I tried the same offer on my own and my players have quit playing.

So you paid these players 50 dollars a pop to sign up on Party? I guess the industry term for these people are "bonus whores." Once they lost the cash, they never made another deposit. Not to sound like an asshole, but if I was Party I would not pay you either.

[pittsburg123]

Richard,

thanks for responding, I honestly thought this was a good deal for all of us. New real money accounts for party, seed money for the new players, and $25 per player for me. win win win all the way around. I never thought in a million years that the players I referred would stop playing. They are all real money players at pokerroom so I figured I was safe in assuming that. Boy was I wrong. any Ideas on how I can get paid?