Fulltilt Fraud Fees

[edmc]

2.7. "Fraud Traffic" means deposits, Revenue or traffic generated at the Website through illegal means or in bad faith to defraud us, regardless of whether or not it actually causes us harm. Fraud Traffic includes but is not limited to spam, false advertising, deposits generated on stolen credit cards, collusion, manipulation of the service, system, bonuses or promotions, offers to share the Affiliate Fee directly or indirectly with Players, and any other unauthorized use of any third party accounts, copyrights or trademarks

Account Created 3/9/2007
Player Rake $37.40
Player Juice $0.00
Player Bonus ($12.00)
Player Added $0.00
Used Points $0.00
Player Fees ($32.68)
Fraud ($460.00)
Revenue ($467.28)

Im just curious as to how fraud fees are charged.

So i have a player click through one of my banners. There was no illegal method in generating the traffic. No bad faith involved. No false advertizing, the banners are up to date. No offer to share affiliate fees.

Now this player was on MGR for March, still looks like a registered player in April.

I received no notification from FT about any irregularities although my own fraud detection skills outsmarted fulltilt's advanced fraud detection system and spotted $32.68 Player fees, thats a few times in the past month a small time player has paid out more in fees than generated in rake.


Now $44.68 in fees/bonus only $37.40 in rake

For that the site takes their cut regardless and the affiliate owes the site

$7.28

Not much you might think but now fulltilt decided to take $460 further as fraud fees

Ok, so credit cards is generally insurance fraud to cover the deficit so where does the $460 come from?


I know i have been sending players through FT who have not appeared in the stats, one or 2 appeared at a later date but that is not the issue, im pretty clear on what is going on there.


The question goes back to the

$7.28

Without even questioning the obscure $460, they have knowingly profited directly from me from what they call fraudulent traffic.


Now the bad thing was they never even e-mailed me with an explaination & they have not responded to my curiosity as to what brand of glue they are sniffing.



I have enough things on at the moment so I couldnt really care less what they are doing to my fees but I just thought it would be good to know for anyone considering promoting them to think twice about it, they have too much of a sense of humor when it comes to stats and tracking.

[corpfan1]

This has happened to me once.

Basically, they have used someone else's credit card, etc...and the transaction has been subsequently declined/reversed by the CC.

Full Tilt bites the $460 and you bite 20%.

That's the jist.

[edmc]

Can someone explain this then????

Hi,
We can remove the player ####### who is the reason that deductions were made to your account. We can remove this player from your account therefore the charge will be removed and you will get the commission generated by the rest of your players.
If we do remove this player then we will not be adding them again in the future when their fradualent activity stops.

Best Regards

#########

The Affiliate Team at Full Tilt Poker

Incidently the $460 was my 20% share of the fraud costs

[gooderpoker]

wow i will take fultilt banners down now!...

[PokerProp]

Hi,
We can remove the player ####### who is the reason that deductions were made to your account. We can remove this player from your account therefore the charge will be removed and you will get the commission generated by the rest of your players.
If we do remove this player then we will not be adding them again in the future when their fradualent activity stops.

Best Regards

#########

The Affiliate Team at Full Tilt Poker

I wish other sites would do this - chargebacks suck. I would drop the player for sure.

[edmc]

Originally Posted by PokerProp

I wish other sites would do this - chargebacks suck. I would drop the player for sure.

Ok, but this was not a chargeback, this was recorded as fraud.

my charge was $460 (at 20%) = $2300

So my player has apparently committed a $2300 fraud.

Only collected $37 in rake

He also totaled up $44 in fees which comes out my cut.

$2300 was not considered a big enough fraud to ban the player but it was considered a warning to me that the player would commit more fraud and FT would continue to charge me for it accordingly.

Would it not be normal to automatically ban the player. I have a feeling the next time I see the players name he will be at the high stakes tables.

[corpfan1]

Fraud usually = chargeback.

Also, are you sure you got charged $2300?? This confused me before. If it showed up sas $460 in your stats, it is only $92 really...as you only receive 20% of your total.

In other words....

TOTAL RAKEBACK - TOTAL DEDUCTIONS....then TIMES 20%.

Hopefully it doesn't happen again. I once lost an amazing player because of it as he was banned.

[edmc]

yes just to clarify - this was not rakeback, just a simple mgr

Total Rake - 45% in fees = Net Rake - 80% - $460 = Affiliate share

put simply

$1000 rake - $450 fees= $550

$550 Net Rake - $440 house share = $110

$110 - $460 = -MINUS $350

[corpfan1]

?