The Bonus Code Debate...

[kaus]

and it makes no difference to me anymore. I dont worry about it, I have out of curiousity asked the bigger names if this is normal and they choose to not answer my question. Just like bonuses we do what is allowed by the cardrooms. I have nothing against rakeback, and I would probably offer it if it wouldnt be so difficult for me to do on my own...I take all CPA deals now because I dont want any issues with lost players. I was just making a comparison on why most of us affiliates make sure that these bonuses are right there in the face of the visitor...like New PokerGirl said we know they will be tracked and while we override cookies, its not alot different than deleting them. Anyway off to bed thanks for the topic Prop

[PPP]

The amazing thing about this business is the reason there is even a discussion of this at all... the cardrooms are utterly, totally, absolutely, completely incompetent when it comes to marketing themselves online.

How can it be possible that for a term like "cardroom marketing code" that the number #1 result isn't cardroom.com/marketing-code/ ? How can cardroom.com, which controls several sites, not have every top 10 result for that term (and also cardroom.com rakeback for that matter).

Every single one of these cardrooms are pitifully horrible marketers. It should be the case this niche will be closed out someday when the cardrooms extract their heads from their rectums, but honest to god, that day is NOT close.

Players sent via catering to searches of these type make the obvious point that not only is the last affiliate visted not the one that converts a player, but the last several likely are not.

Any cardroom that allows an affiliate to use its brand name to the left of the .tld is stupid beyond words. Any cardroom that has rakeback and does not have a rakeback page themselves is doomed to its second rate status because they freaking deserve it.

And the real kicker, the fact that I write the above won't lead to any of the cardrooms doing a damn thing to be less dumb. And while this makes affiliates money, it also leads to a lot of chaos and nastiness in our business, which is too bad. If we all could just give up 5% of our income, and have the cardrooms not be such dipshits, it would be a helluva relief.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by PPP

And the real kicker, the fact that I write the above won't lead to any of the cardrooms doing a damn thing to be less dumb. And while this makes affiliates money, it also leads to a lot of chaos and nastiness in our business, which is too bad. If we all could just give up 5% of our income, and have the cardrooms not be such dipshits, it would be a helluva relief.

Well said. And its funny because you are 100% right the issues can be identified over and over again, but nobody will ever fix a thing.

[TheDonk]

Holy crap - PPP, Graham, and I all agree on something.

The end is near.

[kaus]

The amazing thing about this business is the reason there is even a discussion of this at all... the cardrooms are utterly, totally, absolutely, completely incompetent when it comes to marketing themselves online.

How can it be possible that for a term like "cardroom marketing code" that the number #1 result isn't cardroom.com/marketing-code/ ? How can cardroom.com, which controls several sites, not have every top 10 result for that term (and also cardroom.com rakeback for that matter).

That makes me laugh. Even searching terms where all of the cardrooms should be able to rank for, sites rank higher than them. The only room who is good at doing this is Bodog. They rank for all of thier terms including the bonus. Funny enough, when I created some sites around Bodog they quickly found out that I had these sites, anyway the took them from me. I was targetting terms that were showing up new, within 3 weeks from handing them over the domains Bodog started ranking for those terms.

What surprises me is they allow affiliates to do it, when most of them have in their T&C's that we are not supposed to be competing and SEO'ing our sites for "their" terms

[Notspot]

It constantly amazes me what cardrooms allow aff's to get away with. There a plenty of 2 or 3 page sites out there set up specifically with the intention of ranking for bonus code terms and exploiting the general mess we find ourselves in. If I owned or ran one of the bigger cardrooms who spend a fortune on tv and media advertising I would clamp down on those sites in a nanosecond.

The smaller rooms don't really need to worry cos it's pretty pointless ranking for their bonus codes 'cos practically no-one searches for them anyway. They are the one's that truly benefit from aff's efforts to push bonuses.

My main site is pretty much bonus orientated but that wasn't my original intention, I was never really interested in the bonuses as a poker player - it's just that when you realise where the money is you would be daft not to follow it. I would love for bonuses to become a side issue and the quality of the poker room to take centre stage - but in the current climate it's just not prudent.

Stars started sorting it out but seem to have lost interest half way through but I really think they were on the right track like Bodog are. Cardrooms are throwing money away everyday paying aff's for players who were in the process of signing up anyway, there's also the issue of quality aff's losing players to the bonus code system but don't get me started on that.

I wrote a mega long post of why the current system is wrong, how it could be sorted out and marvelling over how ridiculously bad it is for the whole industry but it was only really rehashing what PPP, Kaus and Graham have already said so I won't bore you with more of the same. And for the record I agree with them 160%

Don't even get me started on the rakeback mess!

[Notspot]

BTW absolutely no offence was meant to those who excel at bonus code sites. These people are great at what they do and if the bonus code system ended tomorrow I know they would excel at something else very quickly. They are just doing very well with the tools and options available to them.

[PPP]

I don't think there is anything wrong with affiliates ranking for any term, bonus code or anything else. It's not something that needs to be addressed head-on, but its something affiliates have to consider in dealing with cardrooms. It's a red flag to see any cardrooms that allow affiliates to use their brand left of the tld. But if an affiliate has a website with their own brand name, then shoot for whatever you want (as long as its not deceptive, like saying its an official site and it is not).

[Ridge]

Great thread by everyone. I can see the argument both ways and I lean more towards what prop is saying. Players know what they are looking for when they want Rakeback. that to me is a big difference in marketing to a specific niche (rakeback) and targeting phrases (like Pokerstars Marketing codes).

I will admit that I have a few sites which target bonus phrases, but for Rakeback I do not suggest that anyone uninstall xxx poker room and delete cookies, I've never seen a reason to. If the players don't get their rakeback they will email and find out why. If they have a cookie or are already tracked somewhere, that's not my issue or my player in that case.. Since I'm providing a service I will try and help them, but that's as far as it goes. Like Prop said, although we may not get this player for w/e room they initially tried to sign up for, we can leave them with a great impression of our service and they will come back.

Rakeback players in general are very loyal to whoever takes care of them. It goes back to the discussion about losing players to rakeback. Once they find out they could have got the Bonus + Rakeback and they only got the Bonus, they lose some trust, get pissed, and go elsewhere.

Anyway, I'm just restating what has already been said. We as affiliates didn't create this problem, not for the bonus words or the Rakeback. We are just playing the game.

Again, great post prop and everyone else..