Every Pokerbook Ever Pdf

[BobRains]

So... FYI...

I found that link the other day, thought people here would like it, so I posted it. I do not stand behind the quality of the material, the validity of the copyright protection, the hosting, or really anything to do with that site, or the material presented within.

I'm just a guy who loves poker, and likes to read, so... I found this link, loved it, shared it.

pauljones- This isn't a PAP statement, it's not a re-adjusting of policy, it's not instructions, it's just a guy posting a link.

So, should I take it down? What do you think?

[xYassassinYx]

No Bob its a great resource for both affiliates and poker enthusiasts.

thanks for posting it

[kaus]

Wow I'm really surprised by this thread. Bob arent you working for PAP? You of all people should know how wrong this is not to mention the legal issues behind copywritten material

The mods are just as bad. Kingcobra where do you get off saying that this place "allows people to form their own opinions" nothing about this has anything to do with people forming an opinion or not. This is about whether or not something is legal and this is definately not.

Your a mod and your actually thanking the person for posting such an awesome link.

Originally Posted by KingCobra

That's awesome Bob, I've got a ton of books myself but there's several there which I've never heard of and will check out. I'm sure the members are going to love this not to mention save a bundle of cash

How about I buy a domain and copy your pages. Im not downloading it on my hardrive. I can easily copy paste and be done with it. Better yet while I'm at it why dont I outrank you for your own content and take your earnings.

What you've done and said here is absolutely no different (in case you still dont get it this is theft) and coming from the people who are supposed to run this forum - wow.

$50 my post gets deleted in true pap style

[xYassassinYx]

i knew this was wrong was 1st person to say it

[kingcobra]

Originally Posted by kaus

Wow I'm really surprised by this thread. Bob arent you working for PAP? You of all people should know how wrong this is not to mention the legal issues behind copywritten material

The mods are just as bad. Kingcobra where do you get off saying that this place "allows people to form their own opinions" nothing about this has anything to do with people forming an opinion or not. This is about whether or not something is legal and this is definately not.

Your a mod and your actually thanking the person for posting such an awesome link.




How about I buy a domain and copy your pages. Im not downloading it on my hardrive. I can easily copy paste and be done with it. Better yet while I'm at it why dont I outrank you for your own content and take your earnings.

What you've done and said here is absolutely no different (in case you still dont get it this is theft) and coming from the people who are supposed to run this forum - wow.

$50 my post gets deleted in true pap style

Well we don't mind differences of opinion however that's all this is, your opinion. By the way the link is down in case folks were wondering and it seems whomever was hosting it may have been persuaded by outside sources to do so, who knows. Anyway as Bob has said, this is just a guy posting a link to some poker material, that's his privilege, as it would be yours.

If you think that I as a mod should be deleting it or whatever well that would be pretty overbearing and we think too highly of freedom of speech to do that, and it's only in circumstances where members clearly violate the rules of the forum that we even consider doing that.

So with something like this, you just take it for what it is and if you think it isn't cool to read or make use of stuff like this well no one is forcing you to do so. If you want to express your opinion of whether you feel doing so is appropriate then that's fine as well.

I'd like to point out though that your comparison of copying material from a website and using it on yours is not at all analogous to this. This would be more like someone else did it and you stumbled upon it and read it. If there are any copyright issues then it's with the publisher not the reader, as I pointed out in an earlier post. If I say to you, hey here's some cool stuff to read, and here's the link, now it's not my stuff and I didn't violate anyone's copyright in giving you the link, and you aren't either by reading it.

You're welcome to disagree on a matter of principle but then again that's your opinion and boils down not to a matter of law but a matter of personal preference, personal standards, personal points of principle, etc. And by implication, if you assert that your personal preferences have merit than you need to allow for the personal preferences of others even though they may differ from yours. Which in a nutshell is what is going on here.

[Randy]

.

[kaus]

LOL Kingcobra it doesnt matter if your a reader or the actual owner of a site distributing material you dont own. using material that you didnt pay for, and passing it off to others saying hey look what I found...this can save you tons of cash is wrong. You are no better than the person who is posting the material on their site.

If you download the material from that website you are stealing from the author because you did not pay for the book. There really is no difference between the person posting it and the person who uses it. Both are stealing and thats not opinion - thats fact! Both are equally responsible

As a webmaster you should understand how wrong this is and that was the point I was trying to make to you by using your website as a comparison. That is your material and you would be totally pissed if I took it from you regardless of how I did it and who else used it.

If you cant see the difference than I honestly feel sorry for you and hope that someone doesn't rip you off because that is exactly what you do when you use something that you KNOW you didnt pay for.

I wont be responding again in this thread - I just wanted to point out how very wrong you as a mod, and a webmaster are by condoning others to use/take from someone without paying for it

[BobRains]

We'll it's like a case of action from inaction. I actually found the link on another popular gaming forum. I Thought "wow what a great collection, I should share it on our forum," so I did. Oddly enough, by posting it here, the additional attention the link was given, caused the original poster to remove it and replace it with a rant bashing one of my favorite poker forums.

My Bad.

Now granted I did not copy the material in question, I only posted the link, but honestly, I should have known better.

I actually thought it was fine, and have since done a little research and WOW I was wrong.

"If it doesn't have a copyright notice, it's not copyrighted." FALSE

At one point, this was true, but today almost all major nations follow the Berne copyright convention. In the USA, almost everything created privately and originally after 1989 is copyrighted and protected.

"If I don't charge for it, it's not a violation."

False. If you charge it can affect damages awarded in court, but that's main difference under the law. It's still a violation if you give it away

"If it's posted to Usenet it's in the public domain."

False. Nothing modern and creative is in the public domain anymore unless the owner explicitly puts it in the public domain(*). Explicitly, as in you have a note from the author/owner saying, "I grant this to the public domain." Those exact words or words very much like them.

"It doesn't hurt anybody -- in fact it's free advertising."

It's up to the owner to decide if they want the free ads or not. If they want them, they will be sure to contact you.

Doh...

[kingcobra]

Originally Posted by kaus

LOL Kingcobra it doesnt matter if your a reader or the actual owner of a site distributing material you dont own. using material that you didnt pay for, and passing it off to others saying hey look what I found...this can save you tons of cash is wrong. You are no better than the person who is posting the material on their site.

If you download the material from that website you are stealing from the author because you did not pay for the book. There really is no difference between the person posting it and the person who uses it. Both are stealing and thats not opinion - thats fact! Both are equally responsible

As a webmaster you should understand how wrong this is and that was the point I was trying to make to you by using your website as a comparison. That is your material and you would be totally pissed if I took it from you regardless of how I did it and who else used it.

If you cant see the difference than I honestly feel sorry for you and hope that someone doesn't rip you off because that is exactly what you do when you use something that you KNOW you didnt pay for.

I wont be responding again in this thread - I just wanted to point out how very wrong you as a mod, and a webmaster are by condoning others to use/take from someone without paying for it

Well once again you're entitled to your views but it seems we are going to have to agree to disagree here. You keep saying that this is wrong but this equates to the fact you disapprove, regardless of how strongly you feel about being right. Your approval though isn't always required. You need to realize that the point of whether readers are "no better" than the publisher means no better in your eyes and that point has been made rather clear.

You say that this is stealing and not an opinion but a fact. It actually is your opinion as stealing as fact would need to be measured against a much more objective standard than the fact you believe this to be morally wrong or whatever. We know that if someone robs you at gunpoint for instance and takes the $20 from your wallet than that is stealing from an objective perspective since it is clearly against the law. However what if you drop the $20 on the street and someone comes by and picks it up? That's a lot more of a gray area and many would claim including myself that it isn't.

What if you have a copy of a poker book and a friend asks to borrow it? Would that be stealing if you let him read it? Presumably he'd be doing the stealing not you by your reasoning even though you were the agent that made this possible. We could say that the reader stole from the author because he should have paid for the privilege but there was no stealing involved here, at least in the way the term is normally used. The same would be true if someone published some copyrighted content on a website, it's there to read, the reader isn't stealing, in fact even the publisher isn't stealing, although he's still breaking the law so to speak by way of coyright infringement but is the reader? Is it even wrong for him to read it? I know what your answers may be but it's a shame that you can't see there are no obvious answers here at all.

The fact that I'm a website owner and I'm not preaching fire and brimstone here like yourself may strike you as odd but when it comes to these matters I manage to maintain my objectivity. From a personal perspective intellectual property is an important issue and we share that in common but I don't want to lose touch with who is the perpetrator here. It seems that the publisher of these books has had the material removed by his web host and rightly so as if I were them I'd work hard for the same thing. Once again this may strike you as odd but there's some distinctions that can be easily made here which you aren't choosing to make, which is fine since again you are entitled to your personal views, but you must try harder to resist the temptation to be too dogmatic about it.

Bob is correct about all of his points and the material in question was clearly a copyright violation. However in a case like this the issue of whether readers are in violation of anything is far from cut and dried and as a legal theorist I could go into this in a lot greater detail and find these discussions very interesting but I'll spare you of all that other than to say that my purpose here with all of this is to defend Bob since I strongly believe he had only the best intentions here. As well, the providing of my personal opinions as always has absolutely nothing to do with any official duties as a moderator and continue to take the liberty of presenting them unabated which my readers expect and deserve and assume that members will be able to make the distinction between acting on behalf of PAP and expressing personal comments, just as Bob's posting of this link wasn't on behalf of PAP and was done on a personal level. We do wear the PAP hat at times as staff members but we're still entitled to be regular forum members as well.

I'm going to take a cue from Randy who always was there in the past to provide sensible guidance whenever I debated too long on a subject on here and just agree to disagree with you and leave it at that.

[AceMaster]

I don't know what happened on twoplustwo.com, but that guy is pissed at them. If you visit the link it has a series of links that curse and whine. HaHa, got to love the internet.