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Old 06-05-2008, 03:46 PM
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Default Lets decide to pay less

Prices have been going out the roof lately for all kinds of affiliate exchanges things.. Links prices, content etc.
I'm not suggestion anyone responding here saying they agree or organizing anything official or anything like that, its actually probably better that your remain silent on the topic.

I think as affiliates many of us, including myself have allowed a major inflation of price to occur.

I suspect there is a group here not sure how large who just started paying higher prices along the way because we're letting sellers set the market price. I suspect this is a bit of an illusion and we're only paying higher because we feel those we are competing with are.

I'm kind of think if we just quietly cut back on our exchange purchases and start looking to lessor known sources the pricing will come back down to reason. We're all costing each other money by spending more than we should.

I have a bad habit of this, I am the type who goes grocery shopping every few days hardly buys anything and spends $100 on 2 bags lol

Now that its come to my conscious level of thinking that prices have gone up and I don't see why the market warrants it, I for one am going to cut down as I feels its gotten out of control. A small effort should bring prices back down to the fair range.

Prefer no positive responses to this thread, if you want to flame the idea.. by all means do so, but please don't respond saying you support this idea as it defeats the entire purposes of this post.
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Old 06-05-2008, 03:54 PM
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This prob breaks your "no positive responses rule", but oh well...

I agree completely.... prices are ridiculous on some of the content and links posted here. I personally just don't buy it, but if somebody has too much money to throw around and does buy them, that is their choice too.... let them be fools.
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Old 06-05-2008, 04:04 PM
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I'm not sure what the market used to be like because I haven't been around that long, but I disagree. I have been looking into writing here on PAP and even at the rate it's at now I decided it was too low. If a strategy article was to go down to say 30 bucks, it would be a complete waste of time. You will see less and less writers which in effect would harm members.

As for links, I think they are fine at the level they're at now as well. I decided to not sell links on my pages because it hardly seemed worth it at all. If prices went lower it would be worse.

I'm not expert and not claiming to be one, but from my perspective lower prices wouldn't be a good thing.
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Old 06-05-2008, 04:45 PM
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Prices to high I look elsewhere for my stuff and you can usually find it. Personally yeah..links can be out of range..especially people selling links from freshly created pages that arent even indexed..just because its niche specific doesnt mean it has anymore value than someone else. I remember when asking Losercore what to sell links for..his reponse was $10 per point of pr...but that was like a year ago as well.

As for content..I guess it depends on the person and what they supply. I mean there is a significant difference between someone who can write an article about poker strategy on thier own and the person who regurgitates what they read on the internet. When I say write I mean a person who actually has a real understanding of the game and can express that to the reader fluently.

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If prices went lower it would be worse.
Prices are the way they are because you will pay for them.
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Old 06-05-2008, 05:04 PM
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Hazo, I don't agree or disagree with you regarding specifics.

The one part I do disagree with is that we'll have less writers or that my suggestions will somehow harm the little guy. It goes both ways as there are big and small players on both sides and as a buyer I was simply making a suggestion of "hey guys if we don't buy demand goes down price levels".

This is the way economics works, right?

You as the sellers might say, you know what were all working for peanuts lets stop and buyers will pay more.

Obviously my suggestion might have no impact or it might have only a small one, either way I figured I'd through it out there.

No matter what happens its always a free market and people can pay or sell for w/e they want and no two product or service are a like in many cases.
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Old 06-05-2008, 05:15 PM
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Yep you got your economics right. It works both ways like you said. If you're paying too much then by all means you should be trying to get the price down.

The market will sort itself out. What a great world it is we live in
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Old 06-05-2008, 05:30 PM
mjmurphy53711 mjmurphy53711 is offline
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Considering the dollar only buys what .50 cents did a couple years ago, I think it is unreasonable to expect that things "not" go up, and for the folks paying in euros prices have effectively gone down, this post is ill timed I think.

I think you simply decide to pay less personally Prop not as group, and you by all means should if you aren't satisfied with cost vs. value.
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Old 06-05-2008, 05:42 PM
mjmurphy53711 mjmurphy53711 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
This prob breaks your "no positive responses rule", but oh well...

I agree completely.... prices are ridiculous on some of the content and links posted here. I personally just don't buy it, but if somebody has too much money to throw around and does buy them, that is their choice too.... let them be fools.
Hey, please don't take this the wrong way - not trying to be inflammatory but coming from someone who genuinely looked into and still plans on buying some of your review posts, do your comments now mean I can have it for $50 instead of $100? :-)
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Old 06-05-2008, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjmurphy53711 View Post
Considering the dollar only buys what .50 cents did a couple years ago, I think it is unreasonable to expect that things "not" go up, and for the folks paying in euros prices have effectively gone down, this post is ill timed I think.

I think you simply decide to pay less personally Prop not as group, and you by all means should if you aren't satisfied with cost vs. value.
In the corporate world what I just did was illegal
and it is illegal for a good reason, but as a member of a forum where we all kind of contribute though ultimately we are all competitors I find the suggestion more than appropriate.

I understand the value of inflation and the $US better than most members of congress do, and in this industry right now we are reaping many short term benefits because of it. We can take advantage of it right now but it comes at a price, but considering that price is one we must pay regardless.. lets take full advantage of it as we're not doing the hard and the price will be paid no matter what.

The increase in price I am speaking of is not an inflation issue. I've been contacting by several people here since making that post that are pointing me in direction of reasonable prices and their alternatives who thanked me for speaking up >> (that is not a brag. I specifically requested people don't respond with positives and only negatives.)
the reason I bring it up is that these people are obviously pointing out that what I believed to be the case actually is the case, that sellers have been creating the market rates and there are in fact options out there to help level them again.

This isn't a conspiracy or something either. I was not looking to partner with anyone or form sort of action group or union or something extreme lol. I don't care what others sell or buy for.. I was just tossing out an idea for people to consider individually on their own.
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Old 06-05-2008, 07:40 PM
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Interesting thread, and I started to notice a few comments along these lines in other content-for-sale and links-for-sale threads. As one who is on this site primarily as a provider, and secondarily to learn a thing or two, I have some feedback from the other side of the fence.

I present this not as a self-defense, but as an analysis of the thought processes I went through as I was deciding on my own prices.

Here's what you need:

1) The best possible poker strategy.
This is a tough one. The very best poker players in the world don't write much, if any, for two reasons: either they can't write well/express their concept well, or the opportunity cost of the time spent writing doesn't justify the income. That's fine, for what it's worth. Most "pro" articles are ghost-written, at least partially.

Failing "pro" names, your second most effective category is the "online pros." These screen names have enough cache to earn a little respect. Again, you have the potential problem of quality of writing/expression and/or opportunity cost with a lot of them.

Most poker content gets written by a third tier: experienced, good (but not necessarily great) players that read and study the game, are up to speed on the latest developments, and can write and express their concepts well.

Finally, you have people with little or no poker knowledge at all. I'm quite sure you've seen their work.

2) Originality. 100% original is best. Re-written is a distant second. Full out cut-and-paste is the bottom of the barrel.

3) Proper grammar and spelling.

4) Style. Are the articles interesting, easy to follow, and feel like they were written by a real person that you would like to talk to?

5) Timely delivery.


The perfect combination of those attributes is relatively hard to find, and when you find it, you should rightly expect to pay a little more.
==============

Here's what I considered when I was choosing how to price my own work:

In my case, I provide strategy articles with solid poker knowledge. Although my credentials aren't those of a big name pro who would command the big bucks for an article, I contend that my poker strategy is nearly on par with most of them, because I know poker, play poker, and study poker. I actually find the subject fascinating, so solving it is like a puzzle. I read every article I can find, and most of the books. You'd think I'd put that effort into simply improving my game and going pro. No thanks, ten hours a week is plenty for me. It's a diversion, not a life. I work thirty-forty hours in my primary business, ten playing poker, and another ten-twenty writing about poker.

I write 100% original stuff. As I play poker, I often get ideas like "that would make an interesting article." When I do, I put notes and/or hand histories in a text file and go back to them later and write the actual piece.

My English usage is nearly perfect. You certainly won't get an article full of spelling errors, misused your/you're their/there/they're mistakes, poor grammar, and the like. I am capable of speaking colloquially in the right circumstances, though, LOLZ. I've never had an article returned for rewrites.

Style? That's a matter of preference. I try to keep it a little light-hearted, but never silly. I use a combination of first-, second-, or third-person as appropriate for the message I'm trying to get across.

Timely delivery? 1) I never ask for prepayment, even for pre-ordered articles. I figure if person A doesn't want it, person B will. 2) I complete each article, post it on Google Docs for easy sharing, then offer it for sale. In my case, articles are delivered within minutes of payment, and if I'm going to be away from the computer for a while, I tell the buyer that in advance.

Volume? I have offered discounts for multiple articles, etc. and will continue to do so.

===================
I weighed all of those factors when deciding how to price my work. Then I looked at the amount of time I spend creating an article. In the case of the most recent one I posted in the content sub-forum, it was over 1700 words and took me about five hours to research and write. It's damn good stuff. I elected to price it at $85, which is about $17 per hour, or less than five cents per word. That's not career money, nor is it even as much as I average at the poker tables. I do this because I enjoy it and can make a little money at it.

I wouldn't do it for $10 per hour. That's fast-food employee money. If you want to pay fast-food employee money, you'll get fast-food employee quality. If you don't have a problem with that, and don't mind spending two hours of your own time (opportunity cost) cleaning up an article, feel free to seek articles at 2/2.5 cents per word. There is a market for that, and I understand that and accept it.

Finally, I see three things in threads that get my attention.

One is statements like "I pay $x for articles." That's misleading. Length is obviously a factor. The $85 article I referenced above, specifically could be divided into three parts of ~580 words each. Now I'm only asking $28 per article. Sound more realisitc? Consider length when considering price. I guess I'll write shorter articles.

The second is "pricing per word is wrong." To an extent, I agree, but it is an indication of the work involved. It should be considered, but is not an end-all.

Third is a revolt against "offer me a price." In domains-for-sale, you see this a lot. People say xyzdotcom is for sale, taking offers. What they're really saying is "blow me away and I'll part with this, but I'm not really serious about selling." I think open pricing is more honest.

I know the thread wasn't directed at me specifically, but as one of the current sellers, it is at least partially. I thought I'd at least share some thoughts. The price of everything in life is increasing. The dollar is down, so imports and the cost of living are up. As a result, there will be a minimum price I can work for. If the free market says that my work isn't in demand at that price, I accept that, and I'll move along. In the meantime, I'll write good stuff, and price it fairly and openly, and I hope you want it, because I enjoy doing it.

I've gotten good feedback so far, and sold everything I've posted here, so I'm not sure that sellers are really all that far off the mark.

Quote:
I cannot say enough good things about Rich and his writing. I just love his writing style and candor.
Quote:
Just ordered the Dealing With Bad Beats series, and I have to say I'm very impressed. At $40 an article I was unsure if it would be worth it, but Rich's quality and timely responses were more then worth the cost. Thanks again!
(These averaged 700 words each, so about 5.8 cents per word).
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