Ideal keyword density in visible text?

Catfish · #1 () 10-17-2008, 09:03 AM

Any recommendations for keyword density in the visible text?
Assuming I optimize a page for a combination of 4 keywords, my results so far seem to show that 15-20% are good (count of all keywords in visible text vs total word count in visible text). That is the case with two pages I rank very well for in Google .
So it seems that a 4-5% density for one keyword is ok.

And then, I have observed something strange: Out of 8 pages which seem to be equally optimized (keyword density and metatags), it is the one with the shortest visible text of them all that has the highest Google results.

Hmmmm..... You'd think that more text would bring better results, especially since the absolute number of times the keyword is found would be higher.

Randy · #2 () 10-17-2008, 09:12 AM

I don't calculate keyword density at all for any of my pages, and I haven't done so in years. Most SEO's think that keyword density is a useless metric.

I think the most effective strategy with your keyword phrases is to focus on two things:

1- Repetition
2- Emphasis

Repetition means you use the keyword phrase more than once. The most basic tenet of onpage SEO is that a page which actually has the phrase "online poker" in the text is probably more relevant to that query than a page that doesn't. It follows that a page which uses the phrase "online poker" in the text twice is more relevant than a page which uses the phrase "online poker" in the text once. And so on.

Emphasis means that the phrase is emphasized in some way on the page. It might be in italics, bold, quotation marks, in a header tag, etc. Again, the theory is that a page which has the phrase "online poker" in italics is probably more relevant to a query than page which has the phrase "online poker" on it but doesn't emphasize it in any way. (In other words, in natural writing, important, relevant phrases are emphasized, and search engine algorithms take this into account.)

You can approach almost all SEO decisions from this either/or perspective. "Will my page seem more relevant to this query if I do A, or if I do B?" SEO becomes pretty simple when you take that approach.

Of course, there are at least 100 different factors that Google takes into account when ranking a page, and we're sure of some of them and unsure of others. So if someone has a page with the phrase "online poker" repeated 5 times, and you create a page with the phrase "online poker" repeated 6 times, you'll probably outrank them if everything else is equal.

Everything else is never equal though.

Catfish · #3 () 10-17-2008, 10:06 AM

Thanks a lot for the input Randy. I see that the guys in this forum praise you for a reason. I think I will do a bit of both, emphasizing the keywords within the text and increase density where needed. Actually, I have gone through the motions of making a table with total word count, percentages for each keyword, total density and Google rank for a dozen pages now. After I made the changes, I should be able to see the results in my Google rankings in a week or so. Nothing like a bit of trial and error I guess.

punchtheclock · #4 () 10-17-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy

I don't calculate keyword density at all for any of my pages, and I haven't done so in years. Most SEO's think that keyword density is a useless metric.

Agreed. I was listening to Will Reynolds from Seer say that he used to develop pages specifically for each search engine depending upon which keyword density the engine wanted (before my time), but this is now on his list of things that are a waste.

Catfish · #5 () 10-18-2008, 01:06 AM

I am just wondering though whether it is a coincidence that I rank highest for the page with the shortest text and highest keyword density, when all other factors that I could think of were rather equal... But maybe it is because of the fact that this is one of the pages relating to a smaller poker room that is not so competitive?

PokerProp · #6 () 10-18-2008, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

I am just wondering though whether it is a coincidence that I rank highest for the page with the shortest text and highest keyword density, when all other factors that I could think of were rather equal... But maybe it is because of the fact that this is one of the pages relating to a smaller poker room that is not so competitive?

Probably the later. The majority of all my SEO work is onsite and my pages tend to be extremely long in comparison to other sites. I'll have several instances of the primary keyword in the text but its deluded a lot with the other text so I'm sure my keyword density is actually poor even on terms I have the top rankings for.

Agree with everything Randy said. He knows a ton more than me on SEO stuff I'm sure so unlikely I'd disagree often with things he says. I just bring this up to echo I also haven't checked keyword density in many years. Probably the last time I did as in 2004 and I think I spent a few years knowing it was useless and still doing it occasionally while futely hoping MSN rankings might start to mean something again as they were the last search engine where actual keyword density percentages actually seemed to matter.

LadyHoldem · #7 () 10-18-2008, 06:20 AM

The number that comes to mind is 7%, but as has been said before, it's kind of a play it by ear sort of thing that's learned from practice. I mean you want it to be obvious what your keyword is, often times i visit sites, and the first thing I notice is that the most obvious keyword to me is something like 'next' or 'here' or 'click here'.

You want to repeat the keyword, accent it, etc... but I mean, read it when you're done, do you sound like an idiot parrot? Then you've overdone it

Maybe the page is considered short, informational and to the point? Links a factor? Age?

ThePokerBank · #8 () 10-18-2008, 04:09 PM

Haven't got too much to add, but when I write an article I make a conscious decision to use the keywords that I am going after in the text as I write. That's not to say that I shove the keywords in at each and every opportunity, but if the keywords can be used appropriately and it keeps the flow of the article, then I will use them.

I write for visitors, not for search engines. But at the same time it doesn't mean I can't give Google a helping hand when it comes to figuring out what my pages are all about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy

Emphasis means that the phrase is emphasized in some way on the page. It might be in italics, bold, quotation marks, in a header tag, etc. Again, the theory is that a page which has the phrase "online poker" in italics is probably more relevant to a query than page which has the phrase "online poker" on it but doesn't emphasize it in any way. (In other words, in natural writing, important, relevant phrases are emphasized, and search engine algorithms take this into account.)

Randy, if you were looking to rank for a keyword like "online poker", which of the following would be best?

This is the first example, and online poker what this sentence is all about.

This is the second example, and online poker what this sentence is all about.

Does the bolding of extra words dilute the emphasis of the keywords that you would be trying to rank for in the second example? So whilst the second example be more beneficial from a reader's perspective, would the first example be best for SEO?

Randy · #9 () 10-18-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePokerBank

Randy, if you were looking to rank for a keyword like "online poker", which of the following would be best?

This is the first example, and online poker what this sentence is all about.

This is the second example, and online poker what this sentence is all about.

Does the bolding of extra words dilute the emphasis of the keywords that you would be trying to rank for in the second example? So whilst the second example be more beneficial from a reader's perspective, would the first example be best for SEO?

To me, the most fun aspect of SEO is testing hypotheses to see which one is correct. I'd build 10 pages using just a two word phrase in bold, give them a little time to fall into the place where they're going to rank, then change the page later to highlight the longer block of text. Wait a week or two, see how they rank after the change. Look for a trend. Then change it back, wait again, look for a trend. (Don't change anything else during your test, and test multiple pages. You don't want to pollute your test with multiple variables, and a single page might change its ranking based on any number of things, including your competitors' efforts, but a trend across multiple pages should help confirm or deny your hypothesis.)

I'm not being indirect in my answer, because truth be told, I don't know. I vary my onpage SEO strategy from page to page, because when algorithms change, some of my pages go up and others go down.